Event Report: Panel Session with GMCA on Regional Approaches to Digital Inclusion

On Thursday 16th January 2025, the Digital Inclusion APPG held a panel session on “Regional Approaches to Digital Inclusion” in partnership with the Greater Manchester Combined Authority.

The event was hosted by Siemens Mobility in their Manchester offices. It was chaired by CEO of Good Things Foundation, Helen Milner OBE. Speakers included Head of Business Development and Digital Enterprise at Siemens Digital Industries, Sue Bagguely; Shadow Minister for Science, Innovation and Technology Dr Ben Spencer MP; Leader of the Liverpool City Council Cllr Liam Robinson; and Mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham.

Please see below for minutes of the event.

Helen Milner OBE, CEO of Good Things Foundation and event Chair, opened the session and welcomed attendees to the Siemens building in Manchester. She outlined how Good Things Foundation are a Sheffield-based international charity focussed on digital inclusion. Given this, she also expressed her gratitude that the APPG was spotlighting regional voices during the session. However, she called on all those in the room to acknowledge link that regional issues have with the wider UK context in this field.  For example, she explained that across the UK – regardless of location - 8 million people back basic digital skills while 2 million people cannot afford basic connectivity or devices. She also expressed her belief that it was truly exciting that the new Government was committed to publishing an industry-wide strategy on the issue.

She added that the four pillars of the Good Things Foundation were: Skills, Access, Public Services and Confidence (including online safety). To enable the realisation of these pillars, Helen called for better and more effective political and industry leadership. She emphasised that collaboration and co-design were needed at all levels of Government so that best practice from around UK could be effectively drawn on. This would, she suggested, initiate innovation where it's needed. She then called on those in the room to co-create a strategic framework in the sector which provides the requisite flexibility needed to respond to local needs and issues. Rounding off her comments, she invited Head of Business Development and Digital Enterprise at Siemens Digital Industries, Sue Bagguely to speak.

Sue welcomed the group and outlined how the building is Headquarters for Siemens’ UK & Ireland operations – showing the company’s commitment to regional innovation. She outlined that the issue of digital inclusion is hugely timely for the company and for the sector more widely as it is innately linked with issues around transportation, new-cities, AI development and factories. She added that where conventionally the company would’ve relied on the engineering skills of its workforce, they now had to re-skill their colleagues, so they were competent with data. Put simply, she suggested, digital inclusion has a huge role to play in Siemens’ strategy, especially in relation to their workforce. To this end, she added that she was encouraged that the World Economic Forum had released their “Future of Jobs Plan”. Finally, she noted that the Digital Experience Centre was located in the next door room and offered to show any interested attendees around after the session.

Shadow Minister for Science, Innovation and Technology Dr Ben Spencer MP spoke next. He thanked Helen Milner, the GMCA and the APPG for hosting the event. He started by outlining that because he had the brief for digital inclusion in the Shadow Government team, it was great to see the wide variety of voices in the room from a range of different, inter-linking sectors. He outlined that his professional background is in the NHS and more specifically in mental health support, which meant that he is used to helping to look after marginalised people. Issues around exclusion in the digital space is a personal concern, he added, as everyone is at risk. Whilst it is often characterised as just elderly people, minorities or economically deprived communities being excluded, he outlined that this was not true at all as the scale of ‘feeling’ excluded can affect us all. For example, he noted that he has struggled with the process of applying for tax credits and 30 hours of government-provided childcare – despite considering himself tech-savvy. He added, that once you throw into the mix low social capital, low confidence and bad connectivity, then the UK has a ubiquitous problem with exclusion. He called on Government and industry to work together to reverse this embedded issue.

To this end, Dr Spencer MP outlined that digital skills will be the biggest skills gap in the economy by 2030. Fixing this issue is not only a social good therefore but would also benefit the wider economy. While he praised the work of the Government with regards to gigabit access – in line with the previous administration - he called on more initiatives to be rolled out by private business such as creating greater access to sim cards and phones as Virgin Money have done so effectively. He then went on to praise the current data Bill which is going through Parliament and suggested it would make it easier for people to have access to data sharing. It was critical, he suggested, that this piece of legislation works going forward and acts as a cornerstone for the Government’s upcoming strategy.

In addition, Dr Spencer MP noted that when discussing this issue, he can never escape his history of being a doctor and always thinks about solutions from a public health perspective. Local councils are pioneers on this issue, he added, as are social enterprises. In his constituency of Runnymede and Wadebridge in Surrey, one of most excluded communities are those who live in park homes. He added that any digital inclusion strategy needed to pioneer different approaches to those living in Manchester for example compared to these communities in Surrey. This strategy should therefore empower trusted individuals in different communities to rollout digital inclusion initiatives.

Despite his positivity around rolling out a localised approach, he added that digital inclusion was both an exciting and challenging time among communities up and down the country. Indeed, he noted that some elements of rolling out inclusion initiatives can actually worsen exclusion. For example, by moving the process of getting a GP appointment online post-pandemic, the UK has created a huge barrier to vulnerable communities who have limited access on a phone or the internet. He noted that the number of appointments in GP practises post pandemic is much higher, yet people say they ‘feel’ they can't be seen by a Doctor, given the increasingly digital way bookings are rolled out. He finally called on the strategy to acknowledge that inclusion initiatives can actually create digital barriers if not rolled out well.

Helen Milner then thanked Dr Spencer MP for his contributions, agreeing with him and noting that digital exclusion increasingly overlaps with issues associated with affordability. She then asked the Leader of Liverpool City Council, Cllr Liam Robinson to speak on the issue.

Cllr Robinson thanked Helen for her contributions, adding that it was great to be at the event amongst what he described as a stellar cast of industry figures. He shared his belief that APPG sessions held out of the Westminster bubble are powerful forces. From a Liverpool perspective, he suggested, digital connectivity is absolutely an essential and the council are always seeking to take a localised approach that is not necessarily taken directly from national government. National top-down initiatives, he suggested, cannot take into account some of the anomalies that exist in pocketed local areas. For example, within Liverpool itself, 28% of residents are excluded, which amounts to 300,0000 people. These issues of exclusion, he added, were related to both ‘Hardware availability’ (with initiatives like 4G rollout) as well as social issues around deprivation, tariffs and skills which intersect with exclusion.

From his perspective, he suggested, policymakers needed to recognise that so much about modern life relied on the internet to benefit consumers. For example, applying for universal credit or shopping online can save people substantial amounts per year – up to £1000 annually, he suggested some studies had found. Locally, taking a prescriptive, regional and community approach had benefitted Liverpool as the council had been able to work with the private sector to hand out over 4500 tablets and teach residents how to use them.

He next called on the regional policymakers in the room to continue to utilise any Shared Prosperity Funding they had and empower community organisations. In Liverpool, he shared how up to £1.5m had been distributed this way, to ensure that digital inclusion initiatives continue to have a public facing element and remain accessible. He then noted his desire to work with Government more to ensure a localised approach would work more regularly across the UK. Rounding off his section, he added that it had become clear that digital inclusion was empowering and that he was increasingly conscious how in the wrong hands, including people digitally can be hugely dangerous. For example, referencing the Southport riots over the summer, he noted a host of studies which found that on the day when violence peaked, misinformation also spiked. Whilst it can be hugely empowering for citizens, he said digitalisation also requires effective regulation and education to ensure digital inclusion doesn’t empower the wrong people.

Helen Milner thanked Cllr Robinson for his contributions and agreed that regulation and education was needed. She passed over to the Mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham.

Andy Burnham opened his remarks by apologising to the group for being late. He said he was delighted to work with the APPG and welcome them to Manchester. Speaking on the issue, he said that cross party consensus was the best way to achieve effective policy and described achieving connectivity as the 4th utility. Building on this, he said that although questions around being able to turn the heating on or afford food will always rationally supersede connectivity issues, they need to be put by policymakers on the same level of importance, making it an essential. The necessity of prioritising connectivity was further spotlighted during the pandemic, he added, when it became abundantly clear that exclusion would be deepened as services move online.

Andy added that in 2021, he decided that the local authority needed to change their own thinking about connectivity and put it on a par with other utilities. He said he made it a priority for the GMCA to ensure all residents are supported to get online, with a particular emphasis on under 25s, over 75s, and disabled people. To this end, he added that a survey by the Disabled People’s Panel commissioned by the authority over pandemic found major issues  across the board for disabled people with digital access and skills. To mitigate this, Andy said the GMCA had created the Digital Inclusion Access Network which had allowed him to pull sectors together within the authority to tackle exclusion holistically by increasing support available to vulnerable and homeless individuals. Additionally, he added that within the authority he had commissioned Henshaw's Society for Blind People to help vulnerable residents in the future. He said he was looking forward to building on the work he had done with Nick Horne, CEO of Wythenshaw Housing Group (who was in the room) and various telecoms companies to get people in social housing online.

He also noted that within the authority, in 2023, his team had created a databank for Greater Manchester launched in partnership with Good Things Foundation. Through the scheme, they had distributed 50,000 free sim cards across the city region. He argued that this kind of policy action – which relied on a voluntary welfare state - was vital for effective outcomes.  He also pointed out that policy like this was an example of why further devolution is needed as it meant that local knowledge could be better integrated into local solutions. For example, data rollout, using local expertise the GMCA could co-locate data bank solutions with food banks – thereby reducing deprivation on multiple fronts at once. More widely, Andy said that devolution was essential for helping people get online – for example, he noted that as adult education budgets are given to those with local knowledge, the money can be catered to help people with specific needs.

Despite his optimism for regional solutions to exclusion, Andy added that there needs to be a better designed space where national needs integrate with regional policies. He called for Government and industry to start considering issues at a national level – for example overextending the social tariff - whilst examining the multitude of effects it could have across different regions. Looking forward, and building off this, Andy suggested that once the GMCA receives its new funding settlement in April from Whitehall, they’ll have more freedom over funding in the exclusion space and would look to rollout policies that work in a preventative way. For example, he added that he’d look to increase funding support for people through the LiveWell scheme– Greater Manchester’s community-led health and wellbeing scheme. He confirmed that the Digital Inclusion Access Network would be a key part of this as a lack of connectivity stops people getting into work.

With regards to the national picture, Andy called on all Government services to go online but in a way that puts the health and wellbeing of the citizen first. To this end, he posited that the first test for the upcoming strategy needs to be ‘getting everyone online confidently’. He noted that he was looking forward to seeing the details of the strategy and the extent to which it would intertwine with further devolution.

Helen Milner thanked Andy for his contributions and added that when she interviewed him in July 2024, they discussed the effects that having more power over welfare could have on the digital divide. She highlighted that they agreed that investment was needed to fix the divide and open up the £13bn opportunity to the economy of people being better included. She then opened the floor up to question the panel.

BCS Chair of Digital Divide Specialist Group, and Founder of #JoiningTheDots, Freddie Quek thanked the speakers and Chair for their contributions but noted that we needed to acknowledge the role AI was having on society – in both positive and negative terms. He called on the speakers to integrate AI solutions and considerations into their regionally driven policy answers.

CEO of Wythenshawe Housing Group, Nick Horne – who shared that he represents 26 housing providers across the authority, or 20% of all Greater Manchester residents – suggested that social housing pilots in the region have shown that whilst social tariffs are an effective short term solution, exclusion isn’t a problem that can be solved by private business alone. He suggested it requires wholesale central government investment, which is targeted to different groups, especially those who experience educational under-performance. He also said corporate DEI (Diversity, Equality and Inclusion) strategies should be more aware of those groups and individuals who are digitally excluded.

Inclusivity Champion at the West Yorkshire Health and Care Partnership, Fatima Khan Shah then explained her role working for the mayor in her region, Tracy Brabin. She said in response to Dr Spencer MP that the NHS app was key for developing digital capability and increasing accessibility for those with health issues. She added that however good the app was, it needed to be made easier to set up.  Speaking to Cllr Robinson’s point about the consequences of spreading misinformation - as we saw over the summer – she suggested that we need to support people to access multiples sources of information online, rather than a singular, narrow and often biased view propelled on social media. More sources of information would, in turn, help people make their own, more balanced decision on key issues in the public domain. To this end, she added that we need to empower local influencers and community leaders to be the spreader of this information as trust in the effectiveness of the public sector is at an all-time low. She finally noted in response to Andy that while getting excluded people into work is vital, it was important to get people into good work, which could be sustained and viewed as a permeant life-change. She then expressed her wish to see policymakers work with digital platforms to encourage excluded individuals to take-up uplifting occupations that didn't perpetuate cycles of exclusion.

Dr Spencer MP agreed with Nick Horne that corporate DEI strategies should look to include digitally excluded communities. He added that he would raise this with his Shadow DSIT team. Further, agreeing with Fatima, he argued that online access to the NHS needs wholesale reform to make it more accessible – especially around app. Building on this, he suggested that policies had to be designed to ensure people had access to a wide range of information. He concurred too, that trusted local or community leaders can help people access PIP assessments and avoid people feeling the stigma of applying. He did however, state his belief, in contrast to Fatima, that all work – regardless of type and duration – is good for the individual.

Fatima Khan- Shah put on record her disagreement with with Dr Spencer MP about the nature of work.

Elsie Blundell MP (Labour – Middleton North & Heywood) shared how in her role as a local MP, she could see the substantial and divisive problems associated with a lack of network coverage, especially for small or family-run businesses. She also pointed out that within the geography of the Authority, there are huge inequities with online access and several ‘black spots’ across the city-region.

Andy agreed with Ms Blundell MP and revealed that there are a host of “black spots” within the region itself. To reduce the impacts of this, he re-affirmed his commitment to equal coverage across the city and noted that physical data infrastructure remains, as yet, incomplete. To assist this, he also suggested policymakers nationally should look to further reform the social tariff and provide a bigger public subsidy to it. Within this, he agreed with Helen and Dr Spencer MP that the benefits of an inclusive economy are always overlooked by policymakers and industry alike. To deal with this, he said that there should be more imaginative and creative thinking on the ways Britain can get growth everywhere across all demographics.

 Helen agreed with Andy and noted that the new Government's emphasis on growth, partnered with the new upcoming strategy, presents a significant opportunity for the sector.

Mayor Andy Burnham left the meeting and thanked all attendees for their time.

Director of Further Education, Skills and Training at Jisc, Paul McKean thanked Andy for his time and added that in order to get the growth which politicians so often desire, the UK has to close the productivity gap. He gave the example solution of providing better technological literacy programmes, saying that as part of this process, AI should be better integrated across the economy to solve access issues, provide better and more accurate information and increase skills. This would in turn, reduce the need in the long run for local governments and community groups to consistently go to central Government asking for new rounds of funding. 

Head of Digital City and Innovation at Birmingham City Council, Raj Mack said he was excited to be at the roundtable and thanked the APPG for the invite. He said it is vital that policymakers don’t see Digital Inclusion in isolation and view it at a cross-cutting issue among many other factors such as poverty, deprivation and low educational attainment. To this end, it had to be dealt with in a cross-departmental way where data sharing is made more common. Digital exclusion is a manifestation of multiple government services and department failing in the long run, he suggested.

Cllr Robinson replied that ultra localised sand-boxing of different initiatives can help provide solutions in this area.  For example, in the Kensington area of Liverpool, the Government was able to test the rollout of social care with 5G. He noted, that if done well, postcode level pilots of initiatives can empower people.

Professor of Digital Culture at the University of Liverpool, Professor Simeon Yates said these debates needed to have an overarching principle behind them associated with developing a real Minimum Digital Living Standard that isn’t a top-down initiative forced on people. He said different standards work in different locations – for example, digital or home wards have been shown to be less effective in the north than in London. He also expressed his concern that the issue of TV accessibility was becoming a ‘black spot’ for policymakers. He noted that by 2034 all transmitters will be turned off, meaning as a society we’d no longer have TV in the traditional sense and that people would have to rely on online access.

Public Affairs & Policy Director at BT, Jonny Bunt highlighted that the work of social tariff providers across the last decade has been truly transformative for lifting people out of digital exclusion and poverty. He explained the social tariff that BT provides covers 80% of the tariff market in the UK despite the company only having 30% of the wider market share. However, looking forward he noted that bills remain stubbornly high despite the tariffs and argued that further state support was needed.

Director Of Operations at Xyrius Training Ltd, Margaret Brewer agreed with Andy Burnham that broadband is indeed the 4th utility in the UK, and, given its importance to consumers, asked the group why we are still paying VAT on it.

Senior Public Affairs Advisor at Virgin Money, Piers Claughton added that poverty was exacerbated for those people who remained offline. He said that studies have regularly found that people pay 25% more on day-to-day items if they can't get online. To this end, he called for a “golden thread” -which prioritised the alleviation of digital poverty at all levels - to run through all government policy and thinking. This would, in turn, help policymakers think about the wide variety of the impacts digital exclusion had.

Director for Digital at the Greater Manchester Combined Authority, Phil Swan then pivoted the conversation back to the issue of trust, suggesting the group needed to work with policymakers at all levels to pioneer initiatives to improve trust online.

Greater Manchester Digital Innovation and Partnerships Lead, Beena Puri agreed with Phil on trust and again raised the issue of VAT being levied on connectivity, suggesting that deprivation was the key driver of exclusion. She added that acute and often very specific regional challenges are a lot more complex than the issues the DWP face with getting people online access. Speaking to Cllr Robinson’s point on the efficacy of local pilots, she agreed with him but said policymakers need to focus on being more holistic than providing just a string of local initiatives.

Cllr Robinson agreed with Beena’s point and added that we shouldn't ignore the role of AI in these debates around worklessness and deprivation. He said that in 2024 his council led the city’s first AI summit and secured over 1000 AI-based jobs from Global IT company Kyndryl.  This would form a key part of the city’s new AI hub, which would be vital for jobs and investment, he added.

Dr Spencer MP added that it was a pleasure to be invited to the event, thanking all attendees for their time. He said he’d go away and work with his team to think about a host of issues raised in the debate. Particularly, he said he’d look further into Raj’s point on dealing with exclusion at a cross-governmental level. Finally, he added that when tailoring policy solutions, we should think about poverty in a pluralistic sense, as poverty – especially in this sector – is not just related access to cash and is wholly intertwined with issues around education, social capital, housing and community.

Sue Bagguley then thanked all attendees for coming to the session and to Siemens, and said she thoroughly enjoyed the debate.  She stated her excitement at the rapid pace of change that was going on the sector and suggested that community involvement was key.

Helen Milner closed the session and thanked all attendees for their time. She also thanked the speakers and APPG organisers.